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STM Forum was launched late one night in January 2011 with the goal of providing case studies, guides, high quality information on a variety of topics and to act as a core networking hub for industry veterans.

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Hop Yer Camps Straight to Taboola

December 02, 2021

Here's How Ye Hop Your Campaigns From Outbrain Straight to Taboola @sportex is scaling one ecom campaign successfully and he wanted to snag some pro STM underground tips to rapidly scale his campaigns from Outbrain to Taboola. If ye want all these Taboola questions answered, and more: How to manage ads on OB Campaign settings Budgets Bids CPCs Optimization tips But wait, here's the more: @jaybot's dirtiest Taboola secrets (see why Taboola's optimisation rules of thumb are simple, and why that shouldn't be yer main concern) @jack_l's un-ending insider secrets re anything native (this man is a fountain of native knawledge, blessed be his affiliate soul) Trust me, these 2's posts sprinkled throughout a golden thread, alongside @sportex's questions makes this one ye want tucked up yer sleeve. Yer welcome. >> Absorb Native Knawledge Here << [SPONSORED] Got Mainstream Dating Traffic? Maximize Your Profits with Adromeda! Adromeda KNOWS how to convert mainstream dating traffic - so if you're not running with us yet, you're missing out! Right now would be the best time join us - as we're increasing our payouts for Black Friday and Cyber Monday! Check out these CPLs: Traffic: WEB/MOB GEOS: AUS, CAN, GBR, NZL, FRA, DEU, AUT For review site traffic: SOI, CPL -- $15 Other traffic sources: SOI, CPL -- up to $7 These payouts will be valid from Nov 29-Dec 3. Join Adromeda to Access These Payouts Now! As a welcome bonus: Reach $3,000+ in monthly revenue, and you'll receive an additional 10% as a bonus! (Offer valid for the first two months after you start sending traffic, for up to $1,500 over the two months. Follow this link for more details.) For those who don't know, Adromeda is an agency with strong mainstream verticals, including mainstream dating, astrology and insurance. We represent many exclusive offers for different countries. Payouts are traffic-source dependent, but are well above market average. >> Sign up on Adromeda and reap the benefits yourself! << Here Be Some Fine Leadgen Networks For TikTok Blessed be the wicked ways of TikTok leadgen. Here inside be the finest leadgen affiliate networks for mighty new TikTok. Some ye have heard of. Others, ye have heard of too. It's best to start with the big, well known boys and then move onto smaller 'boutique' networks. Or even go direct with the advertiser. >> Dig in Here << Here's What Yer Average STM Desktop Looks Like @Rhino asks STMers what their desktop looks like and how we manage our files. Heed my words, there are 2 types of desktop people in this world. This type: And this type: And perhaps a third type, like @jaybot, who have been hauling their pr0n stash from hard drive to hard drive for the past few hundred years. Sentimental value. There are quite a few precious desktop and file management tips revealed inside. (Yours truly cannot help, my desktop looks exactly like that screenshot up above and I chug everything inside a folder, which has another old folder inside, which has yet another...) So, what do ye do when yer brand new laptop arrives? Can you Native... in December? (ye olde thread) Do the native end-of-year legends still hold true? This thread from 2019 just got revived. Do big native AMs take vacations in December because the costs shoot through the roof and the profits die? @sitckupkid spews truths coming from FB. @jack_l says November's been way better than December, but he's got some sneaky plans in store. Others confirm December's just bad. But is this still true in 2021? >> Well Why Don't Ye Go In And Ask <<

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Ye Won't Believe These Native 🕵️ Secrets

November 27, 2021

The Native Beans Have Been Spilled I don't care what you're up to but before we get into this, ye go in here and ye give @jack_l yer thanks first. Capeesh? Right, have you ever wondered where all the STM pros spy native ads? Adplexity's one thing, yes. And it works. Their scraping's excellent when it comes to Outbrain, or Revcontent. Taboola though? Manual spying's way better. So, have you ever wondered: How @jack_l spends "literally six figures" on Taboola without a single ad ever showing up Adplexity? How you can tell a whole lot from just one specific Taboola widget (revealed inside), you can even find out if it's a test campaign under $500/day or a solid one, based on how many times you refresh. @jack_l's favourite spying sites on Outbrain, Taboola, Revcontent and even Yahoo Gemini. 1 deadly outsourcing spying pro-tip on the cheap and why you want to do the same Really specific search-arb verticals and GEOs. Tons more >> See The Secrets Here << [SPONSORED] How to 120x Your Conversion Rate You read that right. 120x - not a typo. It can be accomplished by using the following 2 new feature at PropellerAds: 1. Demographic & Interest Targeting for Push! Finally - you can target your Push ads by user age, gender and interests! PropellerAds is the first on the market to offer this feature, and we've made this available for ALL our advertisers (yep, even newbies have access now!) It gives instant access to relevant audiences. From the very first impression. No ad optimization or testing period needed. 5-6 times higher CTR, lower CPA, skyrocketing CR - have been reported by many of our partners. PropellerAds' internal tests showed up to 300% conversion growth for specific traffic segments... Join PropellerAds now to access this targeted push traffic! 2. Direct Click This is a new traffic type - you can find it under the "Onclick" tab. It works like a whitelist PropellerAds has collected for you. Imagine skipping the optimization stage and going straight to the high-converting ad zones! And yes, "direct" stands for direct visit to your offer. No creatives needed! Some of our tests show a whopping 120x growth in conversion rate, with direct traffic compared to classic Onclick ads. The best part? Direct Click has just been opened for ALL advertiser accounts! Try it before the auction gets really hot and let's smash this festive season! >> Increase Your Conversion Rate TODAY! << Do STM Wizards Work Hard & Play Hard? @Rhino asks how many hours STMers work every day. The revelations shall surprise you. Hop in and find out what a day in the life of a deadly affiliate marketer on STM typically is. Some work 12-14hr days, when they need to, like The Chosen One. Many others? They work hard, but then they also learn hard, like The Legend. There's a pattern to be discovered. It's quite surprising -- many pro STMers spend just as much if not more time learning and honing their skills. Be it from boredom or monotony. Or a sheer desire to learn and be creative, and to overcome obstacles. To cast money-spells out of thin air. And thus forms a theme which @jack_l calls the 'magocracy of online wizards'. You a wizard, Harry? >> Teleport Inside Now & Find Out << A Newbie's Distant Cry For Help Are you too, a* confused nooblet in need of aid?* Don't know where to start? What's the best traffic source to promote dating offers? Is it push? Or Pop? Have you spent a ton and made only a few dollarydoos back? Have ye been unable to optimize yer campaigns? Worry not and take the plunge into this thread. >> Get Help Here <<

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Little Known Traffic Source Gets Tested

November 25, 2021

Little Known Traffic Source Gets Tested As part of his 'Trafficsource Review' series, The Chosen One (@twinaxe) takes a brave dive into a little known traffic source, so you don't have to (or maybe you do). The traffic source in question? Targeleon Ad Formats: Pops, Push, Native, InPage, Calendar\ Bid Models: CPM, CPC\ Minimum Deposit: $50\ Payment Options: Wire, Webmoney, Paxum, PayPal\ Other Features: Traffic estimator See its unusual campaign creation process (you don't add creatives during campaign creation, nor do you have a daily budget, huh?) Find out the results and insights of @twinaxe's wicked experiments, from push to inpage to native Plus He, The One, has managed to 'bribe' our way into a 12% bonus for your first deposit, available only for STMers The final verdict? >> See For Yerself Here << [SPONSORED] Nutra Your Way to a Tesla! 🔥 It's been more than a month since we launched the ADeer Crown contest! Affiliates have worked hard, and the work has paid off! Winners so far: 2 x tier 1 winners, 3 x tier 2 winners, 7 x tier 3 winners, 9 x tier 4 winners and 35 x tier 5 winners. Congratulations! Not a winner yet? Join us today to win a Tesla or more! >> Click here for details << Moreover: We've handpicked the best-converting Nutra offers for you. We are doing 300+ daily volume on each of the following: Keto SS M3695032-Green Fast Diet Keto - CPS -- US-$140 M3695033-Green Fast Diet Keto - CPS -- CA-$140 M4814783-ACV+ Apple Cider Vinegar Diet - CPS -$140 M4965028-Trim Life Keto - CPS -US--$160\ CBD SS M5125027-Living Tree CBD Gummies - CPS -- US-$140 M4814966-Tranquileafz CBD Gummies - CPS - US/CA-$140 Interested? >> Start scaling with us today! << Tested: 99 Campaigns in 8 Days Speaking of the Chosen One, here he is testing 99 campaigns in 8 days. Why would he do that? Because he can, but also: To find out if there's a performance difference between push and InPage traffic and the best performing user-freshness levels to use. And ultimately, what happens to be the best campaign creation process for testing and scaling the rest of his 500 bajillion campaigns. One traffic type outperformed the other in 17 of 18 tests. One user-freshness level outperformed the rest in 16 of 18 tests. One source had more volume in 12 groups vs 6 for the other. But the conclusion...is inconclusive. >> See For YourSelf << Mac or PC For Your Affiliate Needs? @Rhino asks if a Mac's easy to get used to. Others reveal their feelings in regards to all things operating systems. Some sip their eco friendly, biodegradable, hipster tea and swear their campaigns just run better when setup on a Macbook. Others know how indestructible Thinkpads really are. Others yet take a more diplomatic stance. Yours truly? I sip that hipster tea with great passion and use vintage Excel sheets from '87 converted to Numbers. Your choice, cowboy. Join The Eternal Debate

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FB Tracking =💀?

November 11, 2021

Facebook...I mean Meta -- Did Tracking Go Bye Bye? Put on yer Metaverse VR goggles and imagine having a $140 AOV health and beauty offer. During Q1 and Q2 business was great with $55 CPAs on a $97 AOV. The sun was shining and money flowed through payment processors effortlessly. Today? To-day ye fight tooth and nail for a measly $100 CPA. What the hell did you do to tracking, Zucc? That's exactly how @moneytrain and many others feel right now. Has the straight-sale model gone down the drain? Does anything else even work? The answer will surprise ye. Hint: Zucc has sent FB tracking on a wild trip down the Meta-verse, but maybe it ain't all over just yet. Inside, ye'll find subtle whispers of the youngest traffic source blood on the block -- TikTok, plus surprising creative tips, plus more. Ponder The Meaning of Meta Tracking Here and Now << [SPONSORED] Get a Free Vacay to Mauritius? Your favorite network Zeydoo just launched the contest of the year - Smart Vacation! Want to become the Grand Prize Winner who will travel to Mauritius FOR FREE, or get one of the other great gifts from Zeydoo? 🏝 Sign up for the Smart Vacation promo now!🏝 ✔️ So, how do you get the grand prize and have an amazing vacation in Mauritius? 2 Conditions to Qualify for the Grand Prize: You'll need to make $120k+ in revenue during Q4 of 2021 (Oct-Dec 2021). Your Q4 revenue needs to show a 25%+ growth from your Q3 revenue (Jul-Sep 2021). (If multiple affiliates qualify for the Grand Prize, the person with the highest revenues and growth wins!) ✔️ But wait - there are MORE great prizes to be won! Other than the Grand Prize - there are other great prizes waiting for you to claim! And these other prizes can have UNLIMITED numbers of winners! You'll get these prizes when you meet the revenue and growth requirements (i.e. growth in Q4 compared to Q3). Additional Prizes & Requirements: 🏆 Get a $500 certificate to any airline company when you achieve $120k revenue and +25% growth in Q4! 🏆 Get a $1500 certificate to any airline company or online store when you achieve $60k revenue and +50% growth in Q4! 🏆 Get a $500 certificate to Amazon or any other online store when you achieve $20k revenue and x2 growth in Q4! Don't miss your chance to claim these awesome prizes! (Results will be announced: 12-Jan-2022) >> Catch all the promo details and conditions here << Misadventures on TikTok -- Episode 72: The Red Painting Might as well hop on the TikTok pain train since this week's shaping up to be an all 'doom and gloom' thematic. This ain't all that bad, and there's hope, but we must stick to the theme. The misadventures continue -- for your amusement see below: Running a new account @ -40% ROI, showing promise then suddenly TikTok shuts it down -- classic misadventure Further high up in the thread ye'll see how @bc_red's tracker caught 5.7k visits, out of 6.9k on TikTok How to stop getting junk traffic on non-CBO campaigns, easily (related to be above) More >> Click Here to Watch The Latest Episode Of bc_red's TikTok Misadventures << At Least One Thing's Going on an Upwards Trend Btw, here's a quick non-affiliate link to these magnificent wiener-dog slippers on Bezos Land. They're listed under 'women's shoes' but maybe ye can muster up some affiliate courage and take a solid step in the right direction so you too can look marvelous at home. Yer welcome. On the subject of wieners dogs... Take a hard look inside and find out how STMers push wiener pills all day long: @vortex's advanced wiener SEO tactics @matuloo's priceless tips on how wiener pills are supposed to work with paid traffic @jack_l's native insights Secret tips on what's working, and where >> Go Hard Or Go Home...Here << La Grande Armee Updates The Commoners Ye might want to take a quick peek at this one, trust me. It's got a bit of drama. And a bit of shock. And a bit of tips. And a bit of everything. For best results, pour yerself some fine Rum beforehand. >> Go Here <<

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💋 TikTok Ads Ain’t Converting?

November 05, 2021

Why Aren't Me Ads Converting? Mr. @definitely average height's thread sees activity this past week. Amidst TikTok hiccups, campaigns refusing to work, landers getting measly 2% CTRs and barely squeezing out one miserable conversion, here's a breath of fresh O2: An undercover TikTok degen infiltrates this thread and reveals insights into why TikTok ads can stop working. Hint: KISS. P.S. The memes are strong, so pay close attention. >> Locate The Undercover TikTok Degen here... << [SPONSORED] Top 5 Hottest Verticals for Affiliates Here are the top 5 verticals on VIP Response - and tips on how to capitalize on each vertical! 1: Dating Check out our inhouse dating offer for English-speaking geos, generating thousands of leads daily! Mainstream and adult dating offers cater to a large section of the population, which means amazing scaling potential. Display, email, push, native, social, search...all converting well for affiliates. 2: Sweepstakes We have exclusive offers, and provide custom landing pages to affiliates - the ultimate formula to high conversion rates. Best geos: Europe (especially France, Spain, Portugal, Italy), North America, Australia, New Zealand 3: E-commerce Our in-house discount membership webshop, Goodeess, recently expanded from France to Germany, with more countries to come. It's (mostly) whitehat! Makes it easier to run on social media and search platforms. Help with ad creation. Need help on making strong creatives in different ad formats? We can help with that too - just ask! 4: Casino Easy-to-convert, single opt-in offers even beginners can run successfully! High-payout CPA offers available for more experienced affiliates that have cracked how to get users to deposit. Best countries: Canada, New Zealand, Finland, France, Australia 5: Whitehat Leadgen Lots of SOI/DOI offers = easy conversions for beginners and veterans alike! Whitehat means you can run easily on sources like Facebook and Google. In-house Netherlands solar campaign just launched! Get it while it's HOT! >> Sign Up NOW to Check Out Our Offers! << Ecom Offer TikTok Follow-Along You Should Follow According to @jack_l, @asharjamil's definitely on the right track with this ecom offer from GiddyUp. If @jack_l made it work, so can this guy, eh? Perhaps yes, perhaps no. It's in the red. For now. But there's promise. Go Here Now and Sub MORE TikTok Stuff Papa Zeno puts his coding wizard hat on and resolves TikTok S2S pixel integration mishaps at a glance. A few quick spells and an FF Pro guide and it's all sorted. @bc_red posts a funky looking S2S pixel solution for Voluum. See how to spot and catch bugs. Oh and, do yerself a favour, and go see Papa Zeno's magical page on his magical thread here. >> Go Here <<

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👂Did Ye Hear About The Triple-T?

November 05, 2021

TTT -- Twinaxe's Traffic Talk The Chosen One speakeths. He speaks of the second most important element in yer affiliate campaign, after the offer -- the almighty traffic source. What's in store? He's found 90 traffic sources. Yes, ninety traffic sources in his bookmarks. He shall not be listing traffic sources where he's gotten poor results. There shall be more to come. You should jump in there and follow this thread closely for The Chosen One will post updates. P.S. The first traffic source is 7search. >> Discuss Now << [SPONSORED] Going to ASW? Exclusive 3-Hr Open Bar Party - By Invite Only Evolve Performance is inviting you to meet with us at ASW next week. We'll be at meet market table 1007 and will be hosting a 3-hour open bar party with Everflow. Here are the details: When - Tuesday November 2nd, 5-8pm Where - Parlour Lounge, the Mirage (3400 Las Vegas Blvd. S., Las Vegas, NV 89109) The event is already at capacity, but reach out to your AM or sign up to Evolve's Platform and request for a private invite. Sign up with Evolve Performance Now! Benefits of working with Evolve include: Worldwide Offers Large Budgets Experienced AM's Unique Campaigns Timely Payments The Evolve Escape Experience Easy to Use Platform (Everflow) Sign up with Evolve Performance Now! Have you heard of Venue.com? If not, you need to jump on this ultra-hot offer NOW! Venue is an online marketplace that sells millions of products from leading retailers and top brands. They offer customers the ability to "buy now and pay later". Venue has different payment programs to suit every credit tier and provide customers with the merchandise they need. This unique offer is ramping up on our network with the holiday season fast approaching! $80 CPA on ANY first purchase no matter the sales amount! With over 3 million products and deep linking available on request, this is our Number 1 Campaign on the network right now! Venue sells everything from fashion to electronics to kitchenware to toys to automotive accessories - they even sell car tires! And they have aggressive sales goals for Q4! Don't miss out on the action - sign up with us today! >> Sign up with Evolve Performance Now! << La Grande Armée Invades Tiktok @definitely average height (!), inspired by Big ScottyG, has decided to invade TikTok with his La Grande Armee. It's his first ever CPA campaign after scouring the forums for 3 weeks. The offers? Beauty and makeup. Split-tested between networks. The landers? Two very similar ones with different headlines. Creatives? Now we're talkin' -- 18 different creatives, with 2 different voice overs. TO WAR! >> Subscribe to Digital Napoleon's Thread Here << Lead Gen Gone Bad -- Needs Wristslaps Bad leadgen! BAD! @styl3's been running lead ads for a gym for some time now. Successfully so, bringin in dollarydoos for the gym owner. Then suddenly, the gym owner suggests they target airlines. Not only that, but the gym owner wanted to change the ad copy. From then on, it has been downhill. Will pro STMers resolve this mystery? >> Tune in Here <<

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🤗 Newb-hugging Ecom Offers

October 21, 2021

Grab Yer Newb-Friendly Ecom Offers Happy midweek ye greedy affiliate thundercats. STMer @martinbe's been on fire lately, showering ze forums with questions -- and we've been loving it. How we wish all our shy snowflakes would come out of the shadows like this man. Anywhomz, back to the thread. Newbie-friendly ecommerce offers and networks. Includes some classic networks, some not so classic, a suggested thread by a legend, and the expert in question chimes in again inside this very thread in question. >> Go ye here and begin signing up << [SPONSORED] Grab Yours: Proven Offers That Survive Rigorous Testing Stop wasting time testing hundreds of offers that don't convert, to find one that does! We save you time and money by testing ALL our offers in-house first! If we can't make it work profitably, we won't let you run it. (In fact, you won't even know it ever existed.) We've tested tons of offers for Finance Leadgen in the US, to cherry-pick the best performers, and serve them to you on a silver platter. Set up high-converting campaigns today, in exciting verticals including Auto Loans, Insurance, Medicare, Personal Financing and more. Want to start building a successful business, with evergreen offers that don't burn out easily? We can help make it happen. Register with us and get access to top offers, our in-house platform and your own dedicated account manager who will help you find the best offers for your traffic. >> Get Proven, Evergreen Offers Here << Lazy Neo Dreams Big: His Own DSP When The Chosen One dreams he doesn't dream of a conversion or two. Nay, he dreams big. He wants his own DSP. Thinking "Hey, why don't you become your own DSP instead of creating campaigns on dozens of platforms?", and here we are. Here be the primary whys: Direct access to traffic unavailable elsewhere. More volume, more exclusive inventory. Goodbye middleman. Or, you become the middleman and take dem easy rates. Efficiency. Launch campaigns everywhere under one dashboard. Goodbye campaign approval times. You approve yer own campaigns? Sounds pretty cool. The real question is -- would it be that easy? >> You go and see what STMers have to say about this << [INTERVIEW] One Papa Whale vs One Legend The Legend Himself (@matuloo) got interviewed not long ago. Not only did he get interviewed, but he got interviewed by Papa Whale @ Crakrevenue. Oh and he's being modest again, just see here: "I dont really like to give interviews to be honest, because of several reasons. First of all, I don't feel like I'm any special. Yes, I found some success online and yes I have some experience with this "affiliate" stuff, but still... there are many people out there who are way more skilled or qualified than I'm. And most importantly, the questions in the interviews are almost always the same, more or less... what works in AM now, what will work for the future, what advice would you give to someone just starting out etc... It feels like repeating the same shit over and over." The best part of this interview is that ye get to learn more about The Legend himself. Kudos, Papa Whale, for doing a not-so-standard interview. >> Clicky Linkz Here<< CloudFlare Caching Spells by STM Tech Wizard When a tech wizard like our resident @jeremie tells ye to add these CloudFlare cache tips...you add these cache tips. CloudFlare does not cache URLs that do not end with an extension. E.g. /something/ 2 steps and ye get this: The hows are inside. Bye. teleports away >> Casts Link Here <<

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🧟 $22,804.19 With Zombie Pops

October 14, 2021

Zombie Pops & a Magic Neo Recipe = $22,284.19 Buckle up buckaroo. @larsometer's got a wild case study for us, common affiliate peasants. A $22,284.19 case study, to be exact. For Lazy Neo Himself's wicked ways have converted this man to try and run his famous guide. As per the man: »Lars, I would love to read your case study on this once the offer has cooled off. People need to see how great low payout offers can work.« Key Takeaways from The Lazy Neo himself: Basically a copy/paste campaign from a guide on the forum Offer payout as low as $0.024 per conversion Up to $200 spend per hour Pops are NOT dead What ye seek ye shall find inside: Step I: Preparation (& Doubt) @Lars believed this to be a long shot. But jump in he did and start he did. Step II: Made it work But it wasn't easy. Push showed no luck. Pops, however, did. Zone-cutting and nerve-grinding and all he saw was green. Look: Step III: The Rise of Magic Only one man (Lazy Neo) knows these ways of magic. For the rest of us, @lars included, it is the impossible. This black-o-magic offer worked for an entirely different vertical and traffic. How? See inside. Step IV: Scale or Die $214.13 later and 38.47% ROI -- ye must see for yerself inside. Step V: Pushing it to the limit. @larsometer's zombie transformation begins. The cause? $500/day and waking up every 55 minutes. >> Indulge Yourself In This Exquisite Thread of an STM Gem << [SPONSORED] One Tip to Increase Your ROI by 35% If you're using pre-landers in your affiliate campaigns, here's a tip that can increase your ROI by up to 35%. Without any additional work or cost. The secret? Add a ProPush Smart Tag to your pre-landers! ✔️ How does it work? If you use the Smart Tag, each visitor to your pre-lander will get a push-notification message, offering the options for the visitor to either subscribe or close. If the visitor chooses to subscribe, you can earn money from propush. No matter whether the visitor subscribes or not, they will proceed to go through your pre-lander like they normally would. This way, you make extra money WITHOUT affecting the conversion rate of your main offer! Follow these 2 steps to increase your income quickly and easily: 👉 Step 1) Paste Smart Tag into your pre-lander 👉 Step 2) Send traffic to the pre-lander as usual And that's it! On top of getting conversions to your affiliate offer, you'll be making extra profits on the push-subscriptions! 👉 Set up your ProPush Smart tag now Here's an example of what an extra 35% ROI can look like: Say your campaign is making $1000/day right now. Add the Smart Tag from ProPush, and you could be making up to $1350/day - that's $350 more for the same traffic without doing any extra work! And this works for ANY vertical you may be working with! >> 👉 Set up your ProPush Smart tag now << Spent $400k on Outbrain Last Month But Now It Ain't Workin' @cpa_rapha spent $400k on Oubrain last month. Mostly in Ze Germany. But performance took a hit. CPCs bumped up. New creatives refuse to help. CVRs decreased. Auto-bid campaigns. What's happening, then? Why does this not work? Q4 sky-high CPCs? Offer burn out? >> See What STM Experts Have to Say << $13,604 Profit on Revcontent All we can do is clap, marvel and give thanks: "MONTHLY UPDATE Profit: $13,604 Was hoping to hit $15k for the month, but had some really weird stuff happen with Revcontent (traffic going to zero on certain campaigns, another campaign where the bids changed without me doing anything) Honestly, I did not do a lot of work last month. It was hard, but I learned I could step away for a bit and just let profitable campaigns do their thing (plus I am in the middle of a bathroom remodel that is taking up lots of my time and energy)" wipes prideful tear Oh, and go see what the one catalyst for @sd31677's success was, ye'd be surprised. >> Give Yer Thanks Right Here << 

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